Dark and Dangerous; the Failure of Second Coming
by Sigrid
I’m the first person to admit I like a dark and dangerous story. I like stories with very high stakes. I’m a Doctor Who fan — the universe is on the brink of extinction on a regular basis in that franchise! Here’s what I like about dark, gritty stories; I like what they reveal about the characters.
The recent Dark-whatever titles from Marvel are good examples of the kind of dark stories I like. Heroes and villains are both tested, the lines are blurred between those categories. Characters have to see what kinds of choices they make when their backs are against a wall they didn’t realize was there. I liked the Dark Thunderbolts, with Ghost and Songbird and the Black Widows all being quintessentially themselves. I loved Dark Avengers, featuring the intertwining spirals-towards-madness of a group of psychotic villains let off their chains. I loved seeing Moonstone sink lower and lower as she was encouraged to do so, Daken using his powers of slinky bisexuality to screw with everyone, Bullseye just … going perfectly mad.
The plots served the characters. The plots made the characters more interesting, added depth and nuance to characters we thought we already knew.
X-Men’s Second Coming event was just about the opposite of that.
Many characters die in the sprawling story of Second Coming. I do not, for one tiny, minuscule moment, believe that any of them will stay dead. Death is not high stakes, not in superhero comics, not anymore. Character death is as tired a “stakes” as abuse is a tired origin story for female characters. Death isn’t an adequate threat — not unless the characters in the story think the death is an actual loss.
The problem with this is, the relationships among the characters have to be established prior to the death. Having the fellow characters mourn afterwards without establishing the prior relationship is like comic fans mourning the loss of a title they never bought — too little, too late. And it doesn’t work to have the characters’ grief rely on storylines that are fifteen years old. I, personally, happen to know and remember and understand that Kurt and Logan were very good friends. But almost the only thing they did in Second Coming was argue — it doesn’t pre-pay for Logan’s grief, later. Not in this story.
Now, saving the mutant race — that’s a stakes I can get behind, even though I do not for one minute think that Marvel is going to kill such an intensely lucrative property. But there is a lot you can do, short of mass murder, that is interesting. When I read Wanda’s words, “No more mutants,” in 2005, I got chills. The fate of a people at stake, right there. In contrast, this latest threat to just, you know, kill everyone, was unimaginative.
Maybe I would have cared if I knew anything about the villains in question.
I know, I know, they are all villains from years past. But once again, the current story, the one I am reading now, failed to make me care in the slightest. I happen to know who Cameron Hodge is — but did he get to trade threats of a vaguely sexual nature with Warren, as he has in stories past? Did he get to remind Hank of his vastly superior intellect and how he duped them all to betray their own kind? Not really.
What purpose did it serve, having recurring villains recur, if there’s no character growth? (Murder is not, I shall point out, a moment of character growth for any member of X-Force. Not when that seems to be all they do.) Using Bastion, Stryker, Hodge, and the rest of the lot makes sense if the heroes and villain get to interact, to talk, to threaten each other, to bluster, to rebuff, to affect each other’s future selves and future way of seeing the world. If all the villains do is engage in gruesomely bloody fisticuffs, what was the point? As far as I can tell, the only reason recurring villains were used in Second Coming was to avoid explaining to the reader who these people were, and why we might care. Our knowledge and our caring — our engagement with the arc and interaction — was presumed.
Dear comics, comics that I love and adore, and to whom I have a deep fidelity: Don’t you ever presume on my faith. I have quit reading all superhero titles once before, and am perfectly prepared to dump titles that fail on any level to engage me. I am about as core-target-audience as reader as your market research says you have, minus the penis, of course. And I tell you now, there is one single reason I didn’t stop reading the X-titles this week.
Uncanny X-Men The Heroic Age #1.
Here we have consequences. Here we have characters struggling with their actions, worried about their futures. Here we have stakes that matter — leadership, family, homework, romantic relationships. Nobody gets gutted, maimed, or has a limb amputated in Uncanny X-Men The Heroic Age — yet I teared up as Hank tells Molly what it means to truly live one’s life. I re-read this comic, when I have had little but bored contempt for the last half-year of X-titles.
Dark and gritty doesn’t mean death and maiming. It means consequences that affect people. Second Coming had way too much of the former, with no plausible depictions of the latter. It is my hope that the X-titles from this point on will remember that, at heart, they are the stories of characters who are metaphors for us, the readers. We want fantasies of power, we want fantasies of surviving loss and grief and being stronger for it. We want fantasies of sex and desirability, and also fantasies of intimacy and friendship. We want stories that tell us the world is a dangerous place and we are strong enough to not only weather the storm, but to make the universe a better place while doing so.
Enough with Second Coming, with pointless, purposeless death and desolation. Give me mourning that leads to resolve, rage that leads to commitment, and isolation that turns into family. Give me the Heroic Age, X-Men. Give me the Heroic Age.
Email: sigrid @ fantasticfangirls.org
Twitter: sigridellis
Bravo! Well said! I actually dropped Second Coming with two chapters remaining. It’s rare that I do that, but I felt completely unmoved by it and just couldn’t be made to step another dime on it.
That said, I also refused to pick up X-men: The Heroic Age because I had become so tired of Second Coming. There it sounds like I missed out,
Heroic Age is *great*, David — seriously, it’s a complete breath of fresh air. And the art is delightful, with special kudos to Jamie McKelvie for drawing Hope as an attractive young woman who is NOT auditioning to be a porn star. I think it’s a sad thing that this is even worth mentioning, but it is.
Okay, last night’s insomnia completely ravaged my brain, looking at my typos in my previous comment (“step another dime,” really Dave?). Still, you got my meaning.
So, given that I skipped the last two parts of Second Coming, is there anything I need to know reading The Heroic Age? Or is it all pretty self-explanatory, given that I know the basic set-up?
Question to you and anyone else: Second Coming was problematic, but Heroic Age was well-done — how will this affect your X-men purchases? Anyone dropping Uncanny or any other titles, or did HA redeem faith in the franchise?
@Dave — I’m actually getting back on Uncanny, at least for the next arc, when I’d pretty much dropped all the books after the first couple crossover issues. Ditto Legacy (though I was planning to come back to that one anyway). Don’t know if I’ll dive in to any of the other titles, but this basically takes me back to my status quo of a year ago. (The other X-Men book I get is X-Factor, which I’ve stuck with except a short while around Secret Invasion).
@David I think you can gather the big news from the last few pages of Second Coming by just reading Heroic Age, personally.
“Here we have consequences.” I love that sentence more than I can explain.
I haven’t read a word of X-Men in … a year? If Lorna comes back I’d probably give it an issue tryout. Or Jean. But can you (any “you”, but I’m asking with ME in mind), give me any reason to pay attention otherwise (think “Anika you should try Hawkeye and Mockingbird because it is secretly about how much they love Burn Notice” type argument)? No promises, but I do always listen to y’all.
@Anika — I think you should try the Heroic Age one-shot and see what you think. It has Molly Hayes and Steve Rogers as guest-stars, among other things! I think you might enjoy the character of Hope, too (though I know you have issues with non-Jean people being Phoenix hosts, that concept has already stretched enough, and at least here it feels authentic). And it looks like the next arc of Uncanny is going to involve Hope looking for her roots and Cyclops rounding up a new generation of mutants. This is at least an intriguing preview, and it feels like a fresh start.
Oh, also, there’s Franklin Richards in the one-shot. I think you like Franklin?
Do Molly and Franklin hang out? Because THAT could be a “sold”.
I haven’t got comics for this week yet, so we’ll see.
Sadly, no. But Beast & Molly, and Hope and Franklin do. And Scott and Steve. And I really like the Scott in this book, which I haven’t felt in ages.
Very well said. I think the villains were the biggest problem, here — I know I’ve ranted at length about what a waste it was to bring back Cameron Hodge, in a story that involved WARREN TURNING BACK INTO ARCHANGEL, and not having them interact AT ALL. The villain plots were lazy, and the laziness seemed to spread to the protagonists, too.
But I want to tie the Heroic Age oneshot up in ribbons and hug it to my chest forever and ever. Beast and Molly! Steve and (shirtless) Scott, battling dinosaurs and discussing leadership! It was everything I love in comics, and gives me a lot of hope for the future.
Yeah, that villain problem has been plaguing the X-books — they’ll bring back a bad guy who has a personal history with one character, who is totally available, and throw them against a different character. So the continuity ends up being a shout-out to the reader, but it does nothing to the story. ‘Continuity’ should mean that things are continuous/relevant for the characters, but it usually just means fanporn of the variety that makes you feel smart for recognizing somebody, or that reminds you of how great that story was when you were 15.
I really like Sigrid’s point that the only way to give deaths resonance in a ‘revolving door’ world is to make the story about what it means to the people who are left behind, in a very specific way. I mean, I’m as a big a Cable fan as you’re going to find and I can’t get worked up about his ‘death’ because it’s like the fifth Cable-death I’ve read. But if I think about Hope, who related to this man as a father. . .this IS all new to her. She’s lost her dad, her only friend, the anchor to the only world she knows. Of course that’s emotionally resonant for her, and that’s the kind of beat that the ‘Heroic Age’ one-shot manages to hit. (I also give a lot of credit that neither the recap page nor the dialogue referenced Cable being Scott’s son. Since, well, that’s awfully hard to explain, it’s not necessary for the story — though it adds some resonance if you know it — , and somebody who picks up the Heroic Age looking for a fresh window on the X-Men can get what they need from this issue without having to pull out their Summers family genealogy. And, you know, I’m saying this as somebody who would go for a PhD in Summersology if there was such a thing.
Now. . .I loved ‘The Heroic Age,’ I only got about 2 issues into ‘Second Coming’ before figuring I’d catch up later (not sure if I really wanted to catch up at all). So I feel like I’m on the same page as Sigrid and most of the commenters here. But. A little bit of diabolical advocacy: this “Second Coming” story sold. Not only did it sell but, from what I can tell, a lot of people actually liked it. Is it foolhardy of us to come in and say, “Marvel should stop making comics people will buy and make comics based on the things that WE care about?” I have some thoughts on this but I’m not sure what the answer is. Anyone?
@Caroline Well …. I did buy the whole thing. Well, okay, not really — I didn’t buy or read any X-Force. Buy I bought the title I usually buy.
Because, here’s the thing — I’ve been reading comics forever, and I know that in a year, everything will change. In two years, all the writers will be different. And in the meantime there are mini-series, and one-shots, and specials, and crossovers. So I keep buying the titles.
I liken it to watching a friend be in a relationship with someone who really isn’t good enough for her. I don’t stop being her friend right away, you know? She’ll likely come to her senses in a bit.
Oh, I totally get that. I just mean to say. . .this sold really well, from what I’m gathering. And X-Force has been the most popular X-title. To a lot of people, right now, the kind of storytelling in this book is what the X-Men are. And — well, from what I can tell, the moral of the ‘X-Force’ story was that what they were doing in X-Force was wrong. But (a) that seems kind of disingenuous considering how much time the story took up/how much money it made and (b) as a ‘consequence’ of a bunch of questionable behavior in that other storyline, Cyclops gets a medal, and gets embraced by Steve Rogers. (I, uhh, meant that figuratively but I think I’ll leave it).
Now — I would be TOTALLY happy if we never have to hear about Cyke’s X-Force angst again, and if the more aspirational character that ‘The Heroic Age’ seems to be putting forward is the one who we see moving forward. But still, something doesn’t quite add up.
Do we assume that the reasons X-Force & Second Coming were successful were just the people who were going to be buying those comic books anyway bought them? Do we assume that most of the audience doesn’t differentiate between the darkness of “Second Coming” and the darkness of “Dark Avengers”?
@Caroline I have no freaking clue. And, I don’t want to generalize my opinions of “most readers of X-Force” in public, you know? My *guess*, though, is that like most things it’s complicated. Some people buy it out of inertia. Some buy it because, like me, they have faith that the story they don’t like will be replaced by one they do. Some are completists. Some are collectors. Some are following a writer or artist’s work. Some are big fans of the story. Some are big fans of a specific character. Some love the violence and the gore. Some just buy all the X-titles.
That’s not useful, though, really. And it doesn’t get me *less* X-Force and *more* Heroic Age.
I get that. I also tend to develop a pathological need to understand why people like things I don’t like, which is SOMETIMES blended with a benefit of the doubt regarding the notion that there must be something good going on that I just am not seeing. Sometimes.
This has to do with why I’m always looking for more/better criticism of mainstream comics.
[And, ahh, if that wasn't understood, why I appreciate reading articles like this!]
I can’t put forth any opinion on how/why this whole thing was/is good/bad because I haven’t followed this story at all. But I wanted to add that I find the whole discussion helpful and fascinating.
(And I now want a one-shot devoted exclusively to Franklin and Molly hanging out)
@Caroline Well, it’s part of why we started the site, right?
But I really, really, have forever been mystified by comics sales.
@Anika I think you should check out Heroic Age because it is about how people don’t move on until they deal with what got them to where they are standing.
OR it’s about how sometimes you fuck things up real big and your son dies but you still kind of get what you want and also a medal, so maybe you’d better start working your ass off to deserve it. That’s what it means to ME?
And, yeah, Sigrid, it’s partly the big mysterious sales issue, but also that this obviously appeals to people who I think don’t, in general, have terrible opinions. (It’s not quite the same as that Arsenal-swinging-the-dead-cat book from a few weeks ago at DC, which got a solid panning from just about everybody who seemed to have a thought in their head — but maybe closer to ‘Blackest Night’ or ‘Cry for Justice’ which appalled some people but were loved by others).
@Caroline I’m not sure that’s really a fair question, because it presupposes that if the books were what we wanted them to be, people WOULDN’T buy them. I highly doubt that’s true. I’m not asking for the X-Books to be about Wallflower and Lifeguard fighting Thornn, you know? All we’re asking for is more emotional resonance, tighter plotting, better storytelling overall. It can still have blood, guts, and Wolverine. And the people who just buy out of inertia won’t flinch, and the people who genuinely like the current stuff won’t suddenly say, “Man, I hate that this book has character beats now!” At least, I’d like to THINK they won’t. And people who got frustrated and dropped the books might just come back on.
This isn’t to say that these things AREN’T happening — I love X-Men Legacy and New Mutants, and I think Fraction’s Uncanny has hit more times than it’s missed. But it’s not a crime to ask for even more, to want things to be even better, than they are. Marvel shouldn’t sit on its laurels just because the books are selling.
@Caroline That’s a good analogy, I think.
I think the reason I object to Second Coming so much is precisely because *I actually care*. If the characters I’ve spent my life with are going to be maimed and killed, I’d like it to actually have some meaning. The revolving door of death makes character death the, the opposite of meaningful, it makes it inconsequential.
Since when is bloody maiming and dismemberment supposed to be inconsequential? I mean, I’m speaking as a FAN of the horror genre, here. Wes Craven is one of my favorite directors, ever. But even in horror films — especially in horror films — violence has consequences. *It horrifies.*
I don’t want to be horrified by the actions of the heroic characters who I adore. I don’t want to see them kill and maim meaningless hordes of unidentified foot soldiers who, however hate-filled they may be, are still people. And I don’t want to see my favorite characters killed or maimed in a story that will be retconned in three years, just for the sake of grit.
If there is a view that gives meaning to these things, that gives value to the way Second Coming played out — something more than I just liked it, or it was cool, I’d really like to hear it.
It always cracks me up when our comments threads are (with all respect to David) mostly the four of us.
Anyway. Yeah, Jennifer, I think the “you can have the hardcore plots with character arcs and good storytelling” is the right way to look at it — “Dark Avengers” would be an example of that kind of thing done well, whether it’s because it was mostly one writer’s vision, or if it was just executed better.
I’m reminded of what frustrated me most about the “Wolverine” movie — I couldn’t help thinking that they could have expended just the same amount of effort and made the same amount of money and gotten a *good* Wolverine story. I just can’t imagine it’s that hard to capture in a film. But telling a good story just didn’t seem to be a priority. I don’t know if that’s so much the case here, or if there are other things to factor in — if the story just got lost in the demands of the marketplace and deadlines (and hey, credit where it’s due, these X-events have all been on time). Or, like Sigrid says, if there’s a way to interpret the story that we’re missing here, I would like to know.
(One thing I would NOT like to hear is that we’re thinking too hard and should just have fun. Just for the record.)
Oh, you guys are awesome. I subscribed to the replies, and I’ve been watching ‘em roll in, I’ve just been too busy today to work up the mojo necessary to join such an insightful discussion.
Keep it up!
I like Cyclops…
I’ve read every issue of X-Force since it came out, and Sigrid, you are spot on in highlighting the problems with the reanimated villains. They were brought back in the middle of the first arc or so, and when they were brought back, it was really shocking for me because I thought a Pandora’s Box was opened which released all these deep characters who really hate mutants. But as you pointed out, only half of that statement was true in the end. Boy howdy, did they hate mutants, but they seemed like empty shells of their former selves, and were completely interchangeable.
I feel like Kyle and Yost TRY to tell a meaningful story with action and shocking moments, but have all their priorities mixed up. They try and illicit deep character moments, but the genesis of these come from plot points that just don’t ring true. And as Caroline points out, an argument that comes up alot is “You’re thinking to hard!”, which I don’t think applies here. If it was just mindless action, then whatever. But the authors aren’t aiming for that, as they are in fact giving us plot points to think about, which are in fact the flaws with X-Force as well as Second Coming (since that is ostensibly the conclusion of X-Force). Now, it seems that the moral of Second Coming is that what X-Force did was bad and that the authors were trying to highlight the moral ambiguity of the existence of X-FOrce for their entire run, but that is highly debatable. I’ll have to get back to you guys on that one.
Lastly, as a fellow comic fan, I too am jaded from multiple deaths and resurrections. I know that, for a fact, Nightcrawler and Cable will come back (and I’m still waiting on Banshee!). When reading, though, I try and divorce myself from that cynicism and see if I can feel the weight of a death for what it is in the story. The way I see it, these characters live in a world where death is much less final than in our world, and are aware of this fact. However, death does mean something to THEM. If not, they wouldn’t be holding funerals and crying their eyes out when someone falls. So I try and consider that when reading a story, despite me knowing that a character will be brought back whenever a big emotional scene is needed.
And I don’t know if I already said this, but great analysis!
Ali, are you saying you like Cyclops specifically in Second Coming?
I ask because, for example, I agree with Caroline’s frustration about the Wolverine movie but there are good moments in it as well, and at least one great moment (Liev made me care about Sabretooth). And I like Gambit better in that movie than any other appearance ever. I mean it was mostly a mess but not a wash, if that makes sense. So I’d love to hear what you liked about Scott.
@Anika – honestly, I just wanted to contribute… and movie Cyclops is hot.
But I agree with Caroline on the Wolverine movie. And I think it goes back to what Sigrid said about not assuming your audience knows the history between characters – which I think that movie kind of relied on. But Hugh Jackman was naked for like 5 seconds, so that was cool.
These are ALL fantastic comments — I particularly appreciate Ali’s ability to cut to the heart of the issue. I wonder if there’s a picture she’d like to link us to.
http://antithesis2.net/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/3323375_james_marsden1.jpg
Ah, and it just came to me why Kyle and Yost’s stories don’t ring true: They’re cheap. Sure, they’re able to write decent character moments down the road, but the the elements that usually start out their stories are cheap.
@comicBOOKchris Thank you! I really, REALLY am glad to hear from someone who can see the strengths and weaknesses of the X-Force run, since I gave up on it ages ago.
I don’t want to condemn writers and artists for *TRYING* to write deep, insightful character stories. God knows, that’s the only way we’re going to get them, is if these women and men keep trying to create them. But I also feel that we the readers should say when it doesn’t work, and WHY it doesn’t work.
Maybe …. I don’t know, honestly — what is a fair balance of work for the writer to expect the reader to do? Are the readers who really enjoyed Second Coming, are they pulling more imaginative weight than I am? Are they filling in more blanks and more moments that I was willing to do? Goodness knows, I’ve been that reader/viewer, busily filling in every hole in the plot and story so that I can enjoy what I’m taking in …
Sigrid, I don’t think it’s a case of what holes aren’t being filled in, but what we let pass for good entertainment. I think that the readers of Second Coming are just willing to look past the flaws or pass them off like they don’t matter.
Also, I find that alot of people that enjoyed this are saying that they do because “this was an important story”. They are justifying that because some important things happened (characters dying, mutants appearing again), that this alone makes for a well written story. I highly disagree with this because the way I see it, you can have the crappiest writer write this entire story with the same exact plot points, and you will have a story that is even worse than this where important things happened. But with the logic that these raging fans are thinking, it’s still on a high caliber despite the bad writing. When you think about the logic behind this, it really doesn’t make sense.
I think Chris has a good point — readers who enjoy the story may have a different definition of what kinds of things they were looking to happen in the story. And by that standard, I get it. If you are looking for revelations about Hope, you might not find them, but if you are looking for the culmination of the X-Force plots of several years (with the bad guys going down and X-Force being exposed/disbanded) then I can see this being a satisfying resolution.
I also think there’s something to what Sigrid says, because I think most stories from in-continuity comics these days rely on the reader bringing *something* to the table. I know there are relationship-driven stories involving certain characters that I *probably* put more weight on than the narrative deserves (*cough* ‘Search for Cyclops) because of external things I’m bringing to the story. I’m invested in those characters’ histories and want to see how things unfold with them, so I’m very likely interjecting things that aren’t on the page. And by the same token, somebody might be getting a lot of emotional resonance out of X-Force and Second Coming if they’re coming to it with — I don’t know, a lot of investment in the X-Men as a persecuted people who need to stick up for themselves or they’ll die? Whereas I, as a reader, not only lack that but have pre-existing investment in other things (I want, say, Scott and Warren and Logan to relate to each other in a certain way based on my sense of their history, and I don’t see that happening here).
And I’ll just say, pulling the conversation back to the Heroic age, I’m so damn glad we got that conversation Hank and Scott had as Hank was leaving because that has been bugging me for months.
Hello Fantastic Fangirls!
(Full disclosure upfront: I haven’t read Second Coming yet.)
I’ve really enjoyed X-Force over its run (I’m only 3 volumes in) and it’s probably become my favorite X-Title over these last few years. For me, it’s been the continual surprise of K&Y taking X-elements that sound incredibly dumb on paper (ex: Stryfe, Vanisher, Archangel, the X-Force team in general) and make it actually a really fun and compelling read. While I haven’t read Second Coming, I have read the wiki summaries and have been impressed how a lot of Second Coming is set up in X-Force, from Bastion’s resurrection of the old X-baddies to the reason Donald Pierce allowed himself to be captured. I agree with the previous comment about the X-baddies seeming pretty hollow, but I think that’s reasonable since they were just techno-organic resurrections.
Sounds like there’s a lot of debate about the point of X-Force and the characterizations, but I had no problem with it. To me, it was a black ops team and it sucked to be a member on it. I felt that K&Y showed how being on the team took its toll on most of the team members. It’s definitely not perfect and I think X-Force has been guilty of some weird side stories, like not really knowing what to do with Rahne after the first arc, but I’ve enjoyed it. X-Force seemed to be a pretty polarizing X-book, so I definitely don’t expect everyone to like it.
Louis — thanks for (bravely) jumping in. Your perspective is interesting because, I have to admit, I never got really far into X-Force. I couldn’t get past the PREMISE of X-Force. I mean, if I see characters doing something that I can transparently see is a terrible idea, I’m not eager to read two years worth of comics in which they feel bad about it being a terrible idea. . .which is a barrier for me, but I’ll admit it’s not a fair evaluation of the comics! So I guess I wonder — is the appeal watching the ingenuity of how K&Y reinvent the villains? Is it watching the characters be pushed to see how far they’ll go? Is it important that the run is based around characters you’re already familiar with/revisiting old X-Men plots, or is it something you would want to read even if these were brand new characters?
Honestly, I think that’s an interesting question to ask about ANY superhero comic these days, and there’s not necessarily a good or bad answer, I just wonder how it affects people’s reading. I read an online review of Second Coming that said “You have to be an X-Men fan to understand how important this story is!” — almost as a point of pride, whereas when I read something like that I think “Maybe someone didn’t do a good enough job letting the story stand on its own.” It’s a tricky question.
After reading all of this I think there may be something wrong with me.
I’m really enjoying Second Coming. I haven’t read the final chapter yet but I am eagerly awaiting my trip to the comic store today to pick it up.
Everything mentioned in the article and in the subsequent posts hasn’t been an issue for me. Far from it. Throughout the series I’ve been quite gripped by the stakes at play.
I got really emotional when Nightcrawler died (I think that issue was the best so far in the crossover). Yes, he probably will come back in the future but it isn’t like he popped back into existence in the following issue.
In last week’s issue, when Hope’s powers manifested in a very Phoenix-like way I certainly wasn’t surprised, but the emotional resonance of the other characters, in particular the reactions of Emma and Logan, really struck me. You had Logan looking on awestruck at what was happening, clearly affected by seeing something so Phoenix-esque (I firmly believe that Jean is the love of Logan’s life if anyone’s interested). Then you see Emma quietly standing by with her head down and eyes closed and you can feel the her sorrow at what could be the return of this powerful woman from Scott’s past.
Greg Land aside I’ve also been a fan of the art. There were some brutal fights, especially on the Golden Gate bridge, where the artists had the page all to themselves and totally delivered with some amazing art (almost wrote amazingly visceral there).
All in all I’ve been enjoying the hell out of this. I’m an X guy from way back so that might colour my opinion but I firmly believe that this is the best crossover to come out of the x-books in years.
Thanks for commenting, Adrian! And, hey, of course, there’s nothing wrong with you — you’re obviously seeing something in this that most of us didn’t, but we’re a self-selecting little group over here; you and Louis probably represent a larger portion of the X-Men fanbase, I’m just personally interested in why that is. (And, as I’ve alluded above, I’ve only been reading this storyline intermittently myself — I wasn’t ready to commit to it enough to pre-order, and then it was so popular that my shop was consistently sold out.)
I think it’s interesting that, it sounds like, a lot of the appeal of the story to you was a pre-existing attachment to the characters and — I dunno, I feel like I’m pretty attached to the X-Men, to the point that subtle reactions by Emma and Logan to the mention of Phoenix are kind of not enough anymore. Like, I either want somebody to DO that story, or GET THE FUCK OVER IT! (I am capslocking at Marvel, Adrian, not at you ; see my answer to “what storyline do you never want to see again”: http://fantasticfangirls.org/?p=926;). I thought Whedon’s ‘Astonishing X-Men’ run was taking to the characters to a point of actually moving forward, and everything since then has just been about pulling them backward. And I know, to some extent, ‘that’s just comics’ but at some point, if no character is ever going to grow or learn anything (which, to me, is a much bigger problem than characters coming back from the dead), I wonder what I’m supposed to be in it for.
None of this is to challenge the sincerity of your enjoyment, Adrian, it just has to do with why I can’t quite get my head in the game.
Joss’s Astonishing X-Men got me into comic books. I wasn’t a reader at all before I bought the first trade of the series. The problem with that is that absolutely nothing I have read since has been as good. It took me a few years to get over that problem but now I just don’t bother actively comparing anything to his run.
I know that the Emma/Scott/Jean/Logan thing has been around for a long time (since Morrison’s run if I’m not mistaken) but I haven’t seen enough of what this new arc is about to judge it just yet. I’m incredibly keen to see where they take this story after Second Coming.
I totally agree that character stagnation is worse than the revolving door policy on most superhero heavenly realms but I wanna give Marvel a chance because I’ve been enjoying this run so far.
Louis and Adrian –
Thank you! I really am interested in what appeals about Second Coming, and X-Force more generally. If I am reading your responses correctly, it’s that there’s a certain amount of investment that you are bringing to the table, and this enriches the stories for you — makes the stories relevant and meaningful.
I wonder, then, what it is that *I* am bringing, that these stories leave me disinterested, while Heroic Age #1 makes me light up? I mean, at some point it’s just personal TASTE, obviously.
Hi, Adrian, I just wanted to say I am interested in Jean being the love of Logan’s life and I agree 100%. And I also understand how little things like that can sell a whole story, that’s how I enjoy things a lot of the time
Oh, yeah, I love little nods like that (as I mentioned in the essay I linked, I loved the detail in the recent-ish “Sisterhood” story in Uncanny about Logan having a lock of Jean’s hair). I’ve just reached the point where seeing the same ‘little touches’ repeated when the big story is about something else ends up driving me nuts rather than making me happy.
Oh, and I get that, too, Caroline. (After all, I’m the one who’s given up on these storylines entirely.)
I’d forgotten that part of the Sisterhood arc. There’s a nice nod to the Logan/Jean relationship in this weeks Astonishing Spider-Man Wolverine.
I guess it is about personal investment. It’s that extra bit you bring to the book if it’s about a character (or characters) you love.
Oh hi. Sorry, I completely forgot to follow up on your responses. The funny thing is that it sounds like I’m this long-running X-fan. I should clarify, I’ve actually only read X-books for maybe a few years sporadically during the 90’s on. I’ve mostly read the Morrison/Whedon/Fraction runs.
So for a lot of the X-Force baddies that were brought back, I don’t have any historical attachment to them. On paper, I know a lot of them are characters that the comics community considers “jokes” (ex: Stryfe, Vanisher). Thing is, when I read the stories, I enjoy them well enough. I’m not really a deep thinker when it comes to reading comics, so maybe X-Force just works b/c it’s like a big budget action movie.
So I think it’s probably just more of a “personal taste” thing as Sigrid alluded to. I know the whole “too many X-books” thing is brought up every now and then, but I guess one positive of it is that there are so many titles that I can most likely find at least one or two X-books that suit my taste and read those w/o worrying about having to pick up other titles.