DC Dreams
This week, Caroline and Jennifer are on vacation. Last anyone heard, they were touring Alcatraz, looking for sites of the X3 movie. As a result, Anika and Sigrid are sharing with you two conversations about their comics wish-list. Earlier this week, they discussed their hopes for the future of Marvel’s titles. In this installment they discuss the plots and character developments they’d like to see in DC’s comics. So, listen in and join the conversation in comments — what plots or stories to you yearn to see from DC in the coming year?
Sigrid:
I have to say, I am really enthusiastic about the Bat-women. Not just Batwoman, but Batgirl and Oracle. I’m always fascinated by the cultural split in the bat-kids — namely the divide between those who came to vigilantism due to trauma, and those who came to it out of a desire for achievement. (Dick came to it out of trauma, Barbara in pursuit of achievement and then a second time out of trauma, Tim out of achievement, etc.) I mean, the bat-family is deeply dysfunctional. And I really, really dislike Batman for the way he raises these kids. They’ve all gotten killed, or nearly killed, trying to earn a single word of praise from him! So that all puts an interesting spin on Kate Kane.
As far as I can tell — as far as we know, so far — Kate Kane uses the bat-symbolism for her own traumatic reasons. But those reasons have nothing to do with making Batman happy. And they have nothing to do with pleasing a distant and unreachable father. Kate’s father is very present, very supportive. And while he clearly has his own secrets, the relationship between him and Kate is nothing like the relationship Helena has with her father, or Cassandra Cain or Stephanie Brown with theirs. It is, in fact, a lot more like the relationship between Babara and Jim Gordon. What I want to see is how this plays out — what does it mean to be a bat without giving a damn what Batman thinks? What does it mean to be the symbol without knowing or caring where the symbol came from? I hope at some point we see interactions between Batwoman and the new Batman and Robin — the weight of the chips-on-shoulders on Dick and Damien’s part would be fascinating to see from Kate’s point of view. Of course, I could be wrong about some of this — it could turn out that there *is* a Kate connection to Batman that we just haven’t seen yet.
Kate Kane is doing the bat-thing without a bat-mentor, and we’ll see how it goes. But the new Batgirl has Oracle to guide her in this, her latest attempt to be a bat. I think it’s going to be good for Barbara, honestly — handing down her legacy of her own choice, in the manner of her choosing. And I think it’ll be good for Steph to have someone backing her who supports her instead of dubiously tolerating her activities.
So what are you hoping for in the DC titles?
Anika:
Oooooh, I find this insight fascinating. I really like your take on it and I hope that plays out some. I have to say that I was really, really against Dick taking over for Bruce. I’m not sure I had a better alternative but I always saw Dick’s greatest strength as his ability to NOT be Batman. The Bruce Wayne Batman, I mean, the one you describe in his interactions with the Bat family. But for the most part I have been pleasantly surprised thus far and I am tentatively looking forward to it continuing. I worry that at some point Bruce will inevitably come back and all the forward motion that is seemingly occurring will be lost — or even worse, because time travel is involved, it will have “never happened”. That is seriously my DC/Bat titles nightmare.
I am hoping for an end to zombies first and foremost. I am barely following Blackest Night, but I’m following it enough to be counting the days until it is over (I’ve been told March). I honestly cannot come up with anything positive to say about this plot so I am going to move on, but please, please, no more undead.
Please.
(Aside: yes, this also goes for Marvel.)
What I am excited about, is a reunion of the Titans — both generations, as the older one is basically the new Justice League and the younger ones are all FINALLY both alive and speaking. The little meet ups between Cassie, Kon, Bart and Tim in their various titles have all been worth the wait. But they just leave me wanting more. As our frequent commenter Margot and I have discussed, my perfect universe includes the current Teen Titans title being replaced with a return to Young Justice. That is what I am hoping for in whatever way I can get it.
Sigrid:
Huh, tell me more about that? In what way are the older Titans the new Justice League?
And, I agree with your fear about the bat-titles. I am morbidly certain that, at some point, Bruce Wayne will return to being Batman, and we’ll lose all this fascinating character development. Sigh.
Anika:
Well, the new current main roster of the JLA (yeah, that old chestnut!) includes Dick Grayson, Starfire, Donna Troy and Cyborg. And Green Arrow and Green Lantern are the only real “name” first generationers (I am sure someone will argue that, but it’s my feeling). Dick is Batman, Donna’s in for the Wonders and their Kryptonian is Mon-El. In a way, it’s pretty exciting. For the first time in ages, DC feels “new” and I especially love Dick, Donna and Starfire together and in the big leagues. As I said before, I’m pretty happy with Dick’s run as Batman so far. I adore Starfire and after the disaster that was her plot in the never-ending crises and aftermath of crises, I’m excited to see her back at Dick’s side in a more real way. Again, Batman having actual relationships that are actually healthy? It’s exciting. I thought Batman was going to change Dick, that’s why I didn’t want him to win the cowl. But instead Dick is changing Batman. And Kory is. And Donna.
And Donna, like Kory, also has had a few years of really awful plot. So the drama! She’s not my favorite Wonder, I like Cassie best and Diana next, but putting her back with Dick and Kory, I like it. Now if we can just do right by the other two.
Cassie is easy. In my head at least. I’ve already mentioned — get her back with Tim, Bart and Kon. Bring Kara back, too, and how about Cissie? That’s three boys and three girls, it’s just right. We can sub in Steph’s Batgirl for either Kara or Cissie if we don’t want to interfere with their development. And hey, if the losers on Cassie’s current team want to stay the Teen Titans, let them. Cassie and crew can be the Titans, no Teen, now vacated by the above new Justice League. Or they can go back to Young Justice. Or just Justice if they want to be considered not young. Simple and I would be MONUMENTALLY HAPPY.
As for Diana . . .
Sigh.
I am not enjoying the direction that Wonder Woman has been taken in. It is not necessarily a new problem, Wonder Woman is historically difficult, just ask any of the people trying to give her a movie. But I am still sad at it. In theory, Diana is an amazing character. In practice she’s a mess. I don’t really have a solution, however. Creators I love elsewhere writing Wonder Woman still make me cringe.
Sigrid:
Wow, this really sells me on the JLA! And I don’t *read* JLA! But those are the Titans I read, the ones I know a little bit about.
I like the idea of Dick changing Batman. In fact, one of the things I have *always* liked about DC is the way titles and roles get handed off to new generations of heroes. The symbolism and meaning get passed on, the weight of tradition to be wielded by new hands. Superheroing is a calling in the DC universe, a position to be filled by those with the character and the skills to meet the need. Yet each new bearer of the standard contributes something of his- or her- self to the job. Dick Grayson is driven, he has his demons, but he has always been more personable that Bruce’s Batman. I fully expect him to humanize the role.
I can’t really speak as to Wonder Woman — I don’t read the title, though I mean to pick up the Rucka run on it at some point.
I can’t think of anything I’m really opposed to in the DCU right now — mostly because I’m not invested. I only read a handful of the bat-related titles, and only those titles featuring the women. I think my biggest hope for the future in DC is that they *not* undo or take back any of the major stories of the last five years or so. I know there’s a certain amount of griping that Dark Reign is going on too long in Marvel — I say, let it continue. Let there be a couple years of *consequences*, dammit. And let’s have that in DC, too. Let the consequences continue.
Anika:
I one hundred and ten percent agree with you about consequences. That is what I mean when I complain about the “it never happened” plots. Within consequence is character development. And that is what I read comics for. Not the big plot and drama and action and zoom zoom. The characters and how they act, react and interact.
I know what you mean about Wonder Woman — I know there’s a lot of stuff going on with the Supers and the Flash family but I am not reading any of it regularly. I do want to give a shout out to Power Girl because as much as I make fun of her, I also find her rather charming. And while I do not understand the huge number of Flashes that are now around (seriously, they were ALL dead and now they are ALL back. And ALL named Flash!), the newest and littlest, Wally’s daughter Impulse, is absolutely adorable.
I think that is what I like best about DC, they do family well. Unconventional, certainly. Confusing, always. Dysfunctional, you bet. But — well. There’s a lot to be said for that simple dynamic.
And yes, I had stronger feelings about Marvel, but part of it is that what is happening in the DCU right now is hopeful. A lot of the things I’ve mentioned are possible, some of them even seemto be happening. So in that sense, it’s not a bad thing to not have as much to say!
What plots or stories to you yearn to see from DC in the coming year?
Okay, DC time!
Things I’d love to see happen:
Manhunter get her own title, instead of being relegated to the back of Streets of Gotham. Streets of Gotham is good, in that it can include various bat-related characters (the latest arc was Huntress and Man-Bat) and ignore Batman a bit, but Manhunter is very cool and very different than all the other Gothamites, and I want her to have more to do.
I’m excited for the Batwoman origin story to make Kate MORE than just her trauma. I think Rucka has mentioned that there’s a reason she chose the Bat symbol in particular, so we’ll see what that is. We’ll also see her initial meeting with Renee, so… Woo! I’d love for Renee to come back to Gotham, but I enjoy Kate’s chemistry with Maggie Sawyer, so I’d like to see that develop.
As for Renee, I’d love to see more Crime Bible stuff. The PI work is great and all, but I feel like there are a lot of unanswered questions (har har), especially with, you know, zombies all around.
Flash family, I’d like Barry to go away and let Wally just be the Flash. I want Bart to be something else and NOT Kid Flash, and I hope Irey ends up as his sidekick so he can get a little taste of what it was like for Max.
Agree with Anika: bring back Young Justice! (And put Steph on the team!) Let them be the new Titans.
Also agree with Sigrid, and am enjoying Steph as Batgirl. First time I’ve been interested in Batgirl since she was Babs.
I’d like to see more on Damian and his growth, definitely.
I’d also like to see Aquaman be interesting again, but they killed Garth so I don’t know if that’ll happen (for me).
And Green Arrow… I’m not following the current run because I’d be picking it up in the middle, but I love the Arrow family. I’m glad Mia is back, and I’m glad Lian is training with a bow and that Roy has moved to Star City. I think the Arrow Family and the Flash Family are the two cornerstones of the DC world.
Supergirl’s back on Earth now, which is cool. It’s funny, but I like all the secondary characters of the Big Titles – Supergirl, Bat-Woman, The Question, Flamebird and Nightwing, Red Robin… there’s something about them that works for me more than the main characters do (though I love Superman and always will).
I’m sure I have more to say, and I’m sure I could be more organized, but… I need some coffee.
Sam
20 Nov 09 at 9:30 am
At the risk of Sigrid smacking me, I’m ready for Bruce to come back now. Morrison has had his fun destroying my favorite superhero, but now it’s time for him to get his pasty Scottish butt back to the UK.
I have no thoughts on Batwoman one way or the other. I have no real problem with Tim being Red Robin. But, I hate, hate, HATE Damien. Let Steph be Robin. She wanted it and it was taken from her in the most annoying way possible.
As for Superman…well, let’s get rid of some Kryptonians, shall we? Like…umm, all of them. Superman is either the Last Son of Krypton or he isn’t. They can keep Supergirl (and Kara and Kon don’t technically count, since Kara’s from another universe and Kon is a half-human clone).
Love what seems to be in store for the Flash family. So happy to see Bart back as Kid Flash. Love that Iris is getting to be the new Impulse. I’m curious to see if Wally keeps the Flash name. As for Jay, he hasn’t really been called “Flash” for a while.
With Bart, Kon, and Tim all around, can we get the old-school Titans back together. Those three and Cassie, plus Gar, Raven, and Kory. Man, I loved the early TEEN TITANS relaunch.
Dan
20 Nov 09 at 10:07 am
@Dan Heh. I never liked Bruce Wayne’s Batman. I think he’s had enough time to get over himself, and should stop moping around destroying the lives of teenagers.
But I understand perfectly well that this is a MINORITY VIEW, and I don’t rant against those who want him back.
sigrid
20 Nov 09 at 11:12 am
I absolutely 100 percent agree with Sigrid about the Bat-women and to be honest they are the *only thing* I care about right now in DC, and the only thing I am likely to care about in the foreseeable future. *Maybe* the new Flash book, depending on how that turns out — oh and I do dig a lot of the stuff happening with the Superman family (especially Supergirl, natch), but it’s just taking a while to catch up with that in trade and there are way too many interconnected titles for me to follow in issues.
Sigrid, I would suggest staying away from JLA unless it takes a big creative turn. I mean, conceptually it sounds okay, but based on what I’ve seen of James Robinson’s ‘Cry for Justice’ mini, which is supposed to indicate the direction the JLA is going in, it’s pretty offensive and gross; basically a DC equivalent of X-Force except with fewer females involved in it, and all the gay people dying.
I swear up and down that I conceptually like the DCU almost as much as I do Marvel — probably *more* of my all-time favorite series are DC than Marvel — but most of the big developments aren’t speaking to me right now.
As for Batman, I don’t want anyone to be Batman, I would love Dick’s revelation on Bruce’s ‘death’ to be that there’s a better way to do things but of course there’s no way that’s going to happen. You gotta sell toothpaste.
Caroline
20 Nov 09 at 1:51 pm
Also, I realize I just said that I conceptually like the DCU but I wish there was no such thing as Batman. So, maybe I lied about that.
Caroline
20 Nov 09 at 1:55 pm
I’m mixed on Batman. Need him around, but I don’t want Bruce back. Even though it’s pretty much guaranteed, I’d rather see him back in an Oracle-like role, a la Batman Beyond.
@Caroline – I’m not sure how much Cry for Justice will really indicated the new JLA, considering there will be pretty much 90% a new team. Robinson might do better with different characters, though I haven’t really been following CFJ, so I can’t speak directly to that.
@Dan – I don’t like the whole planet of New Krypton thing, but I’ve liked some of the stories we’ve gotten out of it. The dynamic between Kara and her mom is nice, and the most recent issue of Supergirl made her a totally interesting character me (as opposed to just highly intriguing). Also, maybe I’m a sucker for the destiny thing, but I enjoy Nightwing and Flamebird.
I also think Damian’s recent storyline with Scarlet shows room for more depth, and that’s why I want to give him a chance as a character. He has completely different motivations than every single other Robin has had, AND most of the other masked heroes in Gotham. The fact that this kid’s even a hero is pretty big, considering. Meanwhile, I’m enjoying the parallels of him learning from Dick while Tim learns from Ra’s.
Sam
20 Nov 09 at 2:05 pm
I love Batman. But here is my perfect world.
Bruce Wayne Batman in Gotham with no other heroes. My daughter said quite seriously when we watched the Wonder Woman movie: “If Wonder Woman is Batman’s friend, how come he can’t fix Gotham?” THIS IS TRUE WHEN WE APPLY LOGIC. Everything I love about Batman requires him to live in a realistic universe with no aliens or amazons.
Therefore, I want a Batman comic that has nothing to do with anything else and features Bruce Wayne and then Dick can be JLA Batman forever. And I probably won’t read it very often, truth be told, because Dick is my least favourite Bat (not counting Jason because I don’t count Jason ever).
Anika
20 Nov 09 at 2:07 pm
@Anika — The only reason I tolerate Batman stories at all is for the supporting characters, honestly. I mean, no, let me rephrase that. I find some Batman stories really interesting, but that’s providing I can read them with the understanding that Bruce’s way of doing things is fundamentally messed-up. That he really is causing more problems than he solves, but his own world-view won’t let him realize that, and everybody else follows along with that because Batman’s just as responsible for the way things are as the bad guys are. So that’s why, to me, it’s really hard to make a good Batman universe when someone else — particularly Dick, who as others have commented has often been defined by the ways he isn’t Batman — is taking the lead.
ETA @Sam — based on my admittedly limited exposure to Cry For Justice, it’s going to take A LOT to convince me to give a Robinson-written Justice League book a shot.
Caroline
20 Nov 09 at 3:09 pm
My hopes for DC?
1) I want Batwoman to come out in trade.
2) I want someone to *do* something with the Marvel family, even if it means saying definitively that they’re not coming back. I suppose I should be happy that at least Freddy is active in Cry for Justice, but I’m still waiting for the Wizard to drop the other shoe.
Marshall
20 Nov 09 at 10:06 pm
I’m finding Blackest NIght absolutely dreadful. The first issue got me interested, and I actually like Geoff Johns, but on the whole, the thing has been terribly repetitive.
So, what am I yearning from DC next year?
Green Arrow is one of my fave heroes, and Dan DiDio said his fate next year would be to be “on the run”, so I’m curious as to what lies ahead for him. I’m loving the Batwoman Kate Kane as well, and I hope she gets her own title if Detective Comics once again goes to the Bat-man.
The continuation of Batman & Robin is also something I continue to look forward to. I am NOT looking forward for Bruce Wayne to come back at all.
And I have a feeling Aquaman will be making a comeback next year, so there’s always that.
Oh, and I also wish Plastic Man, also a favorite of mine, would continue to be featured in JLA, though I think he won’t last long
euthanatos
20 Nov 09 at 11:44 pm
I agree with this post!
(I would like DC to stop making me angry and doing ridiculous things, but as they gave me Batgirl and Titans 19, I will pretend that they are not hating me for a moment and just talk about what I want.)
I want Young Justice back, but Anika pretty much covered that. I would also like for Batgirl to continue to be awesome, and possibly be League of Batgirls so that Cass and Charlie can be Batgirl as well. I want Blue Beetle to have his own book, although he can hang out with YJ if he wants. And I would like DC to stop being insanely grim and gritty and whatever. It’s getting annoying. (I’m okay with Dick temporarily remaining Batman, which I never thought I would say. Although I would be okay with Jason Todd getting hit by a bus.)
Oh, and I’d like for the writer of GA/BC to remember that actually, Dinah is really awesome. Seriously. And I want Kon to have the backup feature in Bart’s book. And for Tim to stop being INSANE.
Margot
21 Nov 09 at 10:59 am
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