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	<title>Comments on: Captain America is a Political Character</title>
	<atom:link href="http://fantasticfangirls.org/?feed=rss2&#038;p=1798" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://fantasticfangirls.org/?p=1798</link>
	<description>Comics and Culture</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 08 Sep 2010 20:11:18 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Лазарев</title>
		<link>http://fantasticfangirls.org/?p=1798&#038;cpage=1#comment-6798</link>
		<dc:creator>Лазарев</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Mar 2010 00:15:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fantasticfangirls.org/?p=1798#comment-6798</guid>
		<description>Всё это в общем-то очевидно.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Всё это в общем-то очевидно.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://fantasticfangirls.org/?p=1798&#038;cpage=1#comment-6224</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Feb 2010 12:04:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fantasticfangirls.org/?p=1798#comment-6224</guid>
		<description>I have been a lifelong Captain America fan. As a symbol, Captain America should never be used to slander just plain folks who happen to be outraged at the fiscal irresposability of our employees in DC. That is what happened, and Marvel can&#039;t apologize enough. Race is irrelevant. The viability of our tax system is not!   Thanks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have been a lifelong Captain America fan. As a symbol, Captain America should never be used to slander just plain folks who happen to be outraged at the fiscal irresposability of our employees in DC. That is what happened, and Marvel can&#8217;t apologize enough. Race is irrelevant. The viability of our tax system is not!   Thanks.</p>
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		<title>By: Race &#38; Comics Round-up: Around The Marvel Universe &#124; Racialicious - the intersection of race and pop culture</title>
		<link>http://fantasticfangirls.org/?p=1798&#038;cpage=1#comment-6160</link>
		<dc:creator>Race &#38; Comics Round-up: Around The Marvel Universe &#124; Racialicious - the intersection of race and pop culture</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Feb 2010 14:01:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fantasticfangirls.org/?p=1798#comment-6160</guid>
		<description>[...] a year&#8217;s worth of stories from the Civil War miniseries. Which makes this particular apology all the more frustrating: What makes me angriest about this whole situation, however, is how starkly it contrasts with the [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] a year&#8217;s worth of stories from the Civil War miniseries. Which makes this particular apology all the more frustrating: What makes me angriest about this whole situation, however, is how starkly it contrasts with the [...]</p>
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		<title>By: In Brief — Jeffer$on $tolar$hip</title>
		<link>http://fantasticfangirls.org/?p=1798&#038;cpage=1#comment-5977</link>
		<dc:creator>In Brief — Jeffer$on $tolar$hip</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Feb 2010 23:56:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fantasticfangirls.org/?p=1798#comment-5977</guid>
		<description>[...] not written about it because other people (like my friend and Captain America scholar Jennifer Smith) have tackled the issue with much more grace and logic than I could hope, but my shortest possible [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] not written about it because other people (like my friend and Captain America scholar Jennifer Smith) have tackled the issue with much more grace and logic than I could hope, but my shortest possible [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Valhallahan</title>
		<link>http://fantasticfangirls.org/?p=1798&#038;cpage=1#comment-5970</link>
		<dc:creator>Valhallahan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Feb 2010 17:51:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fantasticfangirls.org/?p=1798#comment-5970</guid>
		<description>Great post. Marvel&#039;s response sounds like a load of cobblers.

Brubaker&#039;s Captain America is a bloody brilliant book. I&#039;m a Brit and it&#039;s one of my absolute favourites.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great post. Marvel&#8217;s response sounds like a load of cobblers.</p>
<p>Brubaker&#8217;s Captain America is a bloody brilliant book. I&#8217;m a Brit and it&#8217;s one of my absolute favourites.</p>
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		<title>By: lilacsigil</title>
		<link>http://fantasticfangirls.org/?p=1798&#038;cpage=1#comment-5961</link>
		<dc:creator>lilacsigil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Feb 2010 05:41:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fantasticfangirls.org/?p=1798#comment-5961</guid>
		<description>Well said - I&#039;m very sad to see that this, of all things, is the complaint that sees Marvel backing down and falling over themselves to apologise.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well said &#8211; I&#8217;m very sad to see that this, of all things, is the complaint that sees Marvel backing down and falling over themselves to apologise.</p>
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		<title>By: chlop</title>
		<link>http://fantasticfangirls.org/?p=1798&#038;cpage=1#comment-5958</link>
		<dc:creator>chlop</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Feb 2010 02:58:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fantasticfangirls.org/?p=1798#comment-5958</guid>
		<description>@Jennifer - as you wish.
As for changing it from within, since I don&#039;t live in the US I doubt I could, and since it&#039;s a loose movement, I doubt someone can keep racist and hyperbole-loving people away. It&#039;s basically protests - how can you stop people from protesting, and should you?

You can move away from a protest that turns mostly hyperbole and racist, but that&#039;s it.

As for sweeping statements - I don&#039;t think I made any.
I think I made it clear how people may perceive it as taking a jab at the protesters and calling them racist. I think the writer went too far, but I don&#039;t support the boycotts - since there is still a reasonable room for doubt.

But Brubaker isn&#039;t helping - posting links to articles saying Marvel shouldn&#039;t apologize, which also seem to say that the jab was intended.

As for implications - I don&#039;t see how an entire movement is to blame for people calling it racist. Some racists using a protesting movement, which is hard to govern, doesn&#039;t turn the movement into a racist one. I would expect any person making such a claim to back up his claim, or to avoid making one.
It just widens the rift between people.

As for the link - I&#039;ll read it later (busy working).
If anyone wants to continue this conversation else where - since I&#039;ve been told I&#039;m passive aggressive in the past, and since I don&#039;t want to seem as grabbing the last word, I&#039;m &quot;fanboychlop&quot; in Twitter. Send me a text and we&#039;ll choose a blog to speak in.

Thanks, Arie AKA chlop.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Jennifer &#8211; as you wish.<br />
As for changing it from within, since I don&#8217;t live in the US I doubt I could, and since it&#8217;s a loose movement, I doubt someone can keep racist and hyperbole-loving people away. It&#8217;s basically protests &#8211; how can you stop people from protesting, and should you?</p>
<p>You can move away from a protest that turns mostly hyperbole and racist, but that&#8217;s it.</p>
<p>As for sweeping statements &#8211; I don&#8217;t think I made any.<br />
I think I made it clear how people may perceive it as taking a jab at the protesters and calling them racist. I think the writer went too far, but I don&#8217;t support the boycotts &#8211; since there is still a reasonable room for doubt.</p>
<p>But Brubaker isn&#8217;t helping &#8211; posting links to articles saying Marvel shouldn&#8217;t apologize, which also seem to say that the jab was intended.</p>
<p>As for implications &#8211; I don&#8217;t see how an entire movement is to blame for people calling it racist. Some racists using a protesting movement, which is hard to govern, doesn&#8217;t turn the movement into a racist one. I would expect any person making such a claim to back up his claim, or to avoid making one.<br />
It just widens the rift between people.</p>
<p>As for the link &#8211; I&#8217;ll read it later (busy working).<br />
If anyone wants to continue this conversation else where &#8211; since I&#8217;ve been told I&#8217;m passive aggressive in the past, and since I don&#8217;t want to seem as grabbing the last word, I&#8217;m &#8220;fanboychlop&#8221; in Twitter. Send me a text and we&#8217;ll choose a blog to speak in.</p>
<p>Thanks, Arie AKA chlop.</p>
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		<title>By: Rage-Inducing LinkBlogging &#187; Comics Worth Reading</title>
		<link>http://fantasticfangirls.org/?p=1798&#038;cpage=1#comment-5954</link>
		<dc:creator>Rage-Inducing LinkBlogging &#187; Comics Worth Reading</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Feb 2010 01:45:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fantasticfangirls.org/?p=1798#comment-5954</guid>
		<description>[...] Jennifer Smith contrasts this Quesada apology with the many things he&#8217;s chosen to stand behind.  Similar [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Jennifer Smith contrasts this Quesada apology with the many things he&#8217;s chosen to stand behind.  Similar [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Jennifer</title>
		<link>http://fantasticfangirls.org/?p=1798&#038;cpage=1#comment-5953</link>
		<dc:creator>Jennifer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Feb 2010 23:46:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fantasticfangirls.org/?p=1798#comment-5953</guid>
		<description>I think this conversation has taken an off-topic turn.  Chlop, I respect your opinions, but since you haven&#039;t actually read the comic in question I&#039;d prefer you didn&#039;t make sweeping statements about its contents.  If you are offended by implications that the Tea Party movement is racist, I suggest you move to the party itself and try to change from within the &lt;a href=&quot;http://retconningmybrain.blogspot.com/2010/02/someone-bring-that-dead-horse-over.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;quotes and images the movement has used&lt;/a&gt;.  Otherwise, I am going to have to close this particular aspect of the debate.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think this conversation has taken an off-topic turn.  Chlop, I respect your opinions, but since you haven&#8217;t actually read the comic in question I&#8217;d prefer you didn&#8217;t make sweeping statements about its contents.  If you are offended by implications that the Tea Party movement is racist, I suggest you move to the party itself and try to change from within the <a href="http://retconningmybrain.blogspot.com/2010/02/someone-bring-that-dead-horse-over.html" rel="nofollow">quotes and images the movement has used</a>.  Otherwise, I am going to have to close this particular aspect of the debate.</p>
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		<title>By: chlop</title>
		<link>http://fantasticfangirls.org/?p=1798&#038;cpage=1#comment-5952</link>
		<dc:creator>chlop</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Feb 2010 23:35:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fantasticfangirls.org/?p=1798#comment-5952</guid>
		<description>@Ragnell - due to an earlier move by Marvel I stopped supporting them, so no - just the two scanned pages. And since I can&#039;t get an issue for free where I live - legally, I didn&#039;t read it.

Thanks for pointing that out. Also - I didn&#039;t say he was twisting characters, but rather using them to complain or convey his own feelings on the subject - which isn&#039;t disallowed, but the way he chose to do it is stupid - either with those signs the letterer is said to have added later on, or without them.

Whether the character is acting in his regular way, doesn&#039;t lessen the iconic way in which he was used - a black man from Harlem - which is associated with poverty &amp; abuse from the (white) government around the 70s, white government-hating protesters, &quot;this isn&#039;t New York City&quot; - while they&#039;re in Idaho, which alludes to the image of rednecks, who are free to do whatever they like, due to the stereotypes associated with this place and with New York.

Saying that government hating isn&#039;t limited to a racist group - The Watchdogs, draws comparisons straight away. Especially because of the way the book was lettered. I doubt the writer didn&#039;t choose to add a big panel showing protesters, and &quot;... bunch of angry white folks&quot; lettered on it.

As I said - I might be seeing things that aren&#039;t there, but there are too many arrows pointing in one direction, and too many things alluding to a commentary on the Tea Party, which was sneaked into a comic.
I doubt Marvel doesn&#039;t check to see that the letters sit correctly on the page - despite previous omissions of censorship of swear words, or due to it - since they would be more inclined to check the finished product before printing it.

@Monica - yes, I did.
It is a matter of definition. A well explained view or argument is not preachy to me, or at least an acceptable level of preachy, but pointing to protesters and saying they are government haters and equating them to a racist group, is simply using a somewhat famous platform, to spout your ideas.

Especially with the nature of the big 2&#039;s comics - being printed on a mostly timely manner, on a mostly regular schedule.

And it didn&#039;t present a view, but rather sneaked in a jab at the movement, equating it to a fictional racist group, and saying it hates the government. That type of commentary is juvenile and stupid - it paints an entire group of people as bad, instead of addressing their views.
It says that by simply protesting in a civil manner, they are government haters.

It is the same as saying Obama is anti-America, that he&#039;s a socialist (which isn&#039;t a crime or a bad thing), that he&#039;s a Muslim - so he&#039;s not pro-America, etc.
It&#039;s the same as saying that a certain part of the political spectrum is enlightened or correct, or white guys with silver spoons, or fascists, or even traitors.

It doesn&#039;t deal with the contents, but rather dismisses people based on who they are, or what they look like. It&#039;s a Twitter commentary, which I expect a writer to avoid doing in print - when there&#039;s time to cool off, and re-think things.

I might be crucifying the writer for nothing, but it reeks of trying to take a jab at a big group of people and getting away with it - especially due to the aftermath. I expect more from a payed professional.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Ragnell &#8211; due to an earlier move by Marvel I stopped supporting them, so no &#8211; just the two scanned pages. And since I can&#8217;t get an issue for free where I live &#8211; legally, I didn&#8217;t read it.</p>
<p>Thanks for pointing that out. Also &#8211; I didn&#8217;t say he was twisting characters, but rather using them to complain or convey his own feelings on the subject &#8211; which isn&#8217;t disallowed, but the way he chose to do it is stupid &#8211; either with those signs the letterer is said to have added later on, or without them.</p>
<p>Whether the character is acting in his regular way, doesn&#8217;t lessen the iconic way in which he was used &#8211; a black man from Harlem &#8211; which is associated with poverty &amp; abuse from the (white) government around the 70s, white government-hating protesters, &#8220;this isn&#8217;t New York City&#8221; &#8211; while they&#8217;re in Idaho, which alludes to the image of rednecks, who are free to do whatever they like, due to the stereotypes associated with this place and with New York.</p>
<p>Saying that government hating isn&#8217;t limited to a racist group &#8211; The Watchdogs, draws comparisons straight away. Especially because of the way the book was lettered. I doubt the writer didn&#8217;t choose to add a big panel showing protesters, and &#8220;&#8230; bunch of angry white folks&#8221; lettered on it.</p>
<p>As I said &#8211; I might be seeing things that aren&#8217;t there, but there are too many arrows pointing in one direction, and too many things alluding to a commentary on the Tea Party, which was sneaked into a comic.<br />
I doubt Marvel doesn&#8217;t check to see that the letters sit correctly on the page &#8211; despite previous omissions of censorship of swear words, or due to it &#8211; since they would be more inclined to check the finished product before printing it.</p>
<p>@Monica &#8211; yes, I did.<br />
It is a matter of definition. A well explained view or argument is not preachy to me, or at least an acceptable level of preachy, but pointing to protesters and saying they are government haters and equating them to a racist group, is simply using a somewhat famous platform, to spout your ideas.</p>
<p>Especially with the nature of the big 2&#8242;s comics &#8211; being printed on a mostly timely manner, on a mostly regular schedule.</p>
<p>And it didn&#8217;t present a view, but rather sneaked in a jab at the movement, equating it to a fictional racist group, and saying it hates the government. That type of commentary is juvenile and stupid &#8211; it paints an entire group of people as bad, instead of addressing their views.<br />
It says that by simply protesting in a civil manner, they are government haters.</p>
<p>It is the same as saying Obama is anti-America, that he&#8217;s a socialist (which isn&#8217;t a crime or a bad thing), that he&#8217;s a Muslim &#8211; so he&#8217;s not pro-America, etc.<br />
It&#8217;s the same as saying that a certain part of the political spectrum is enlightened or correct, or white guys with silver spoons, or fascists, or even traitors.</p>
<p>It doesn&#8217;t deal with the contents, but rather dismisses people based on who they are, or what they look like. It&#8217;s a Twitter commentary, which I expect a writer to avoid doing in print &#8211; when there&#8217;s time to cool off, and re-think things.</p>
<p>I might be crucifying the writer for nothing, but it reeks of trying to take a jab at a big group of people and getting away with it &#8211; especially due to the aftermath. I expect more from a payed professional.</p>
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